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	<title>Comments on: Vertica: Revolution in the Database World?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://havemacwillblog.com/2008/07/02/vertica-revolution-in-the-database-world/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://havemacwillblog.com/2008/07/02/vertica-revolution-in-the-database-world/</link>
	<description>Oh please, not another Mac bigot</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 09:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: What is the Oracle Database Machine? &#124; HaveMacWillBlog (aka Robin Bloor’s Blog)</title>
		<link>http://havemacwillblog.com/2008/07/02/vertica-revolution-in-the-database-world/#comment-2558</link>
		<dc:creator>What is the Oracle Database Machine? &#124; HaveMacWillBlog (aka Robin Bloor’s Blog)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://havemacwillblog.com/2008/07/02/vertica-revolution-in-the-database-world/#comment-2558</guid>
		<description>[...] more interesting question is how the HP Oracle Database machine stacks up against Vertica. (See this posting for details of Vertica). My immediate impression is that Vertica is both faster and cheaper, but [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] more interesting question is how the HP Oracle Database machine stacks up against Vertica. (See this posting for details of Vertica). My immediate impression is that Vertica is both faster and cheaper, but [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: What Is Database Virtualization? &#124; HaveMacWillBlog (aka Robin Bloor’s Blog)</title>
		<link>http://havemacwillblog.com/2008/07/02/vertica-revolution-in-the-database-world/#comment-2484</link>
		<dc:creator>What Is Database Virtualization? &#124; HaveMacWillBlog (aka Robin Bloor’s Blog)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:42:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://havemacwillblog.com/2008/07/02/vertica-revolution-in-the-database-world/#comment-2484</guid>
		<description>[...] this isn&#8217;t so different from the way that Vertica works. My thoughts are that this is how databases will be implemented as time passes. The days of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] this isn&#8217;t so different from the way that Vertica works. My thoughts are that this is how databases will be implemented as time passes. The days of [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: 10 More Companies to Keep An Eye On &#124; HaveMacWillBlog (aka Robin Bloor’s Blog)</title>
		<link>http://havemacwillblog.com/2008/07/02/vertica-revolution-in-the-database-world/#comment-1983</link>
		<dc:creator>10 More Companies to Keep An Eye On &#124; HaveMacWillBlog (aka Robin Bloor’s Blog)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://havemacwillblog.com/2008/07/02/vertica-revolution-in-the-database-world/#comment-1983</guid>
		<description>[...] a whole series of performance techniques that have been used before, but not together (see Vertica: Revolution in the Database World?.) What Vertica is doing that is really different is offering to run  big data warehouses in the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a whole series of performance techniques that have been used before, but not together (see Vertica: Revolution in the Database World?.) What Vertica is doing that is really different is offering to run  big data warehouses in the [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Andy E</title>
		<link>http://havemacwillblog.com/2008/07/02/vertica-revolution-in-the-database-world/#comment-1813</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 14:55:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://havemacwillblog.com/2008/07/02/vertica-revolution-in-the-database-world/#comment-1813</guid>
		<description>Hi, I work for Vertica, and here are a few comments on the comments...

Regarding the "No DBA" claim...Vertica's architecture greatly reduces the time DBAs need to spend getting it running and keeping it fast (via all sorts of automatic installation, tuning, physical design, replication, failover, recovery features as Robin describes). DBAs ARE still required (as LewisC mentions) to focus on data security, backup and integrating new data into the database. Vertica spares DBAs from the design, tuning and recovery tedium so they can focus on higher value added work.

Regarding Niko's orders of magnitude math...Good catch! There are examples of &#62;2 orders of magnitude performance out there. One customer, NetworkIP (a US-based prepaid telecom services provider) described (in a webinar) a query that formerly took 12 hours to run and now takes 10 seconds...depending on the workload, customers will find these exceptional boosts in query performance (for a given query), but for the overall query workload (averaged across tens of different queries a given DBMS is handling), the query performance increase typically ranges from 50x to 200x relative to a row-oriented DBMS.

Lastly, regarding Adi's comment about whether a column DBMS performs as fast when processing more than just a few columns...A column database reads just the columns referenced by the query, which reduces disk IO and speeds up query handling (versus an index-less row db, which must scan the whole table). But if the query is referencing every column in the table (a rare query for most data warehouses), this benefit was negated in early column dbms implementations. The Vertica architecture has much more than column-orientation going for it...data compression (typically up to 90%, and Vertica can query data in its compressed form) further reduces disk IO, and as Robin mentioned in his comment, it's shared-nothing architecture and automatic data replication spreads the query and loading work across multiple servers working in parallel. So even when reading a relatively large % of the table, Vertica performance stays fast.

As LewisC mentioned, the Vertica Architecture white paper (found on the vertica home page) describes how all this works in detail.
 
This is an interesting thread--thanks all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, I work for Vertica, and here are a few comments on the comments&#8230;</p>
<p>Regarding the &#8220;No DBA&#8221; claim&#8230;Vertica&#8217;s architecture greatly reduces the time DBAs need to spend getting it running and keeping it fast (via all sorts of automatic installation, tuning, physical design, replication, failover, recovery features as Robin describes). DBAs ARE still required (as LewisC mentions) to focus on data security, backup and integrating new data into the database. Vertica spares DBAs from the design, tuning and recovery tedium so they can focus on higher value added work.</p>
<p>Regarding Niko&#8217;s orders of magnitude math&#8230;Good catch! There are examples of &gt;2 orders of magnitude performance out there. One customer, NetworkIP (a US-based prepaid telecom services provider) described (in a webinar) a query that formerly took 12 hours to run and now takes 10 seconds&#8230;depending on the workload, customers will find these exceptional boosts in query performance (for a given query), but for the overall query workload (averaged across tens of different queries a given DBMS is handling), the query performance increase typically ranges from 50x to 200x relative to a row-oriented DBMS.</p>
<p>Lastly, regarding Adi&#8217;s comment about whether a column DBMS performs as fast when processing more than just a few columns&#8230;A column database reads just the columns referenced by the query, which reduces disk IO and speeds up query handling (versus an index-less row db, which must scan the whole table). But if the query is referencing every column in the table (a rare query for most data warehouses), this benefit was negated in early column dbms implementations. The Vertica architecture has much more than column-orientation going for it&#8230;data compression (typically up to 90%, and Vertica can query data in its compressed form) further reduces disk IO, and as Robin mentioned in his comment, it&#8217;s shared-nothing architecture and automatic data replication spreads the query and loading work across multiple servers working in parallel. So even when reading a relatively large % of the table, Vertica performance stays fast.</p>
<p>As LewisC mentioned, the Vertica Architecture white paper (found on the vertica home page) describes how all this works in detail.</p>
<p>This is an interesting thread&#8211;thanks all.</p>
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		<title>By: adi</title>
		<link>http://havemacwillblog.com/2008/07/02/vertica-revolution-in-the-database-world/#comment-1804</link>
		<dc:creator>adi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:40:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://havemacwillblog.com/2008/07/02/vertica-revolution-in-the-database-world/#comment-1804</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the quick response.
Adi</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the quick response.<br />
Adi</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Bloor</title>
		<link>http://havemacwillblog.com/2008/07/02/vertica-revolution-in-the-database-world/#comment-1803</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Bloor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:24:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://havemacwillblog.com/2008/07/02/vertica-revolution-in-the-database-world/#comment-1803</guid>
		<description>Technically multiple columnar operations are handled in parallel and then merged together to create rows. I can't think of why there would be a significant overhead to that. You could ask Vertica this question directly. With any luck someone will be reading the blog and will offer you a reply which is better informed than this technical assumption.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Technically multiple columnar operations are handled in parallel and then merged together to create rows. I can&#8217;t think of why there would be a significant overhead to that. You could ask Vertica this question directly. With any luck someone will be reading the blog and will offer you a reply which is better informed than this technical assumption.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: adi</title>
		<link>http://havemacwillblog.com/2008/07/02/vertica-revolution-in-the-database-world/#comment-1802</link>
		<dc:creator>adi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 14:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://havemacwillblog.com/2008/07/02/vertica-revolution-in-the-database-world/#comment-1802</guid>
		<description>it's a well known thing that in a columnar database the performance is good while working on one or few columns.
how good are they with fetching multiple columns?

Adi</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it&#8217;s a well known thing that in a columnar database the performance is good while working on one or few columns.<br />
how good are they with fetching multiple columns?</p>
<p>Adi</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Robin Bloor</title>
		<link>http://havemacwillblog.com/2008/07/02/vertica-revolution-in-the-database-world/#comment-1799</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Bloor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 12:48:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://havemacwillblog.com/2008/07/02/vertica-revolution-in-the-database-world/#comment-1799</guid>
		<description>Niko

I got there by making a mathematical error. Thanks for the heads up. I've now corrected it in the article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Niko</p>
<p>I got there by making a mathematical error. Thanks for the heads up. I&#8217;ve now corrected it in the article.</p>
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		<title>By: Niko</title>
		<link>http://havemacwillblog.com/2008/07/02/vertica-revolution-in-the-database-world/#comment-1798</link>
		<dc:creator>Niko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 05:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://havemacwillblog.com/2008/07/02/vertica-revolution-in-the-database-world/#comment-1798</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;"“two orders of magnitude”... means that a query that previously took 3 hours, now takes 10 seconds."

3 hours * 60 min/hour * 60 sec/min = 10800 seconds
10800 seconds / 100 (two orders of magnitude) = 108 seconds.

How do you get 10 seconds?

3 hours (10800 seconds) to 10 seconds is 1080 times (3 orders of magnitude) faster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>&#8220;“two orders of magnitude”&#8230; means that a query that previously took 3 hours, now takes 10 seconds.&#8221;</p>
<p>3 hours * 60 min/hour * 60 sec/min = 10800 seconds<br />
10800 seconds / 100 (two orders of magnitude) = 108 seconds.</p>
<p>How do you get 10 seconds?</p>
<p>3 hours (10800 seconds) to 10 seconds is 1080 times (3 orders of magnitude) faster.</em></p>
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		<title>By: LewisC</title>
		<link>http://havemacwillblog.com/2008/07/02/vertica-revolution-in-the-database-world/#comment-1787</link>
		<dc:creator>LewisC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://havemacwillblog.com/2008/07/02/vertica-revolution-in-the-database-world/#comment-1787</guid>
		<description>For the cloud provider or for the cloud customer?

Provider:  Backups, DR planning, tuning, daily maintenance, etc.  This stuff all still needs to be done, it just shifts from local to remote.

Customer:  Creating users &#38; roles (security), monitoring performance (to decide when to add capacity), schema design, additional indexing, etc.

The cloud changes where things run, day to day still has to get done.

LewisC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the cloud provider or for the cloud customer?</p>
<p>Provider:  Backups, DR planning, tuning, daily maintenance, etc.  This stuff all still needs to be done, it just shifts from local to remote.</p>
<p>Customer:  Creating users &amp; roles (security), monitoring performance (to decide when to add capacity), schema design, additional indexing, etc.</p>
<p>The cloud changes where things run, day to day still has to get done.</p>
<p>LewisC</p>
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